Torture in America: Kids Abused in “Treatment Centers” Speak Out

January 19, 2012

In honor of the SIA Convention, I’m bumping this show up to the front.

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  • Cybilslost

    i think the abuse has gotten less over the years but there was abuse physically and mentally and yes sexually for some you should not pass judgement on ohters he treated everyone different he knew who he could and couldnt to cult leaders are smart in that aspect

  • John Thomson

    Teens are overdosing at shocking rates, more people are becoming involved in the legal system, and people are even dying from prescription drug abuse. The numbers are literally in the millions. The highest numbers represent opiate-related pain medications.Nowadays, many Treatment Centers are available for drug treatment.

  • John Thomson

    Teens are overdosing at shocking rates, more people are becoming involved in the legal system, and people are even dying from prescription drug abuse. The numbers are literally in the millions. The highest numbers represent opiate-related pain medications.Nowadays, many Treatment Centers are available for drug treatment.

  • rebellb

    I heard a caller on this show saying that a girl in one of these facilities was withdrawing from psychiatric drugs. The caller seemed to say that the girl was “really mentally ill” and “needed treatment”. The calller seemed to think that withdrawing from these debilitating drugs is bad. However, I still say that getting off these drugs is bad, even though I agree that all these “treatment” centers are bad.Psychiatric drugs often make people worse than they were to begin with. They often have withdrawl effects because the body adapts to these drugs. These drugs can often be damaging, so part of the reason why the girl seemed “really crazy” was likely the effects of these drugs. For more info, please visit http://www.wildestcolts.com.

  • lucinda

    the doctor came to the facility because the past girls caused problems at the doctors office and some tried to run.so they were done at the facility..just like state facilities do for safety reasons

  • Lucinda

    which are full of lies!

  • lucinda

    Good job Tabitha!

  • Guest

    also state facilities monitor phone calls? are thy wrong? or just HH?  they monitor for important reasons you would not understand because you are closed minded…

  • Guest

    just go to a state facility you are not to use NO to any child! even daycares now are not allowed to tell a child NO they have to explain why they can’t do something

  • Ghfcpennington

    You also don’t believe in God …I understand why you say this…

  • Ghfcpennington

    Kristi Hunt …DUH… figure of speach

  • Lucinda

    Simone.,
    being safe to make sure that a child does not move during a spanking is not abuse. My second spanking I received at HH I did not have to be held down because they knew I would accept the spanking with out fighting. Children wearing diapers who piss on themselves on purpose yes should wear a diaper and is not abuse. Vaginal exams are not abuse they were done by the doctor with the parents knowledge and permission. There were not consequenses for not accepting their religion that is a outright lie! there are not hundreds of survivors their is about 16 girls claiming abuse and the things they claim were not abuse!  Yes I would if needed place my daughter at HH only as a last resort

  • Schliffa

    Wow, that staff member, whoa. You caught a fish man. That place is all bad.

  • http://www.facebook.com/people/Ricky-Linder/100001036397748 Ricky Linder

    Thank you so much Mark! 

    Thank you for speaking the truth!

  • http://www.kidsofelpaso.com/ KIDS of El Paso
  • sam

    true true

  • Tabithaeck1213

    To a point sam you may be right. But that is what these forums are for. And if hh girls are the only ones that get on and discuss the issues thats not our fault. Its open to to everyone. Im glad they have these because i dont like giving out my personal infomation and if i dont want my kids to see in detaili have a place to go and ask the ?s i want answers to and also to dispute it. We are not being nasty in our responses but we are all defending what we believe to be true. Basically its a debate and what are forums forums for but to ask ?s and get answers.

  • http://www.facebook.com/susan.grotte Susan Grotte

    You are right piper,  thank you.  

  • http://www.facebook.com/susan.grotte Susan Grotte

    Tabithaeck,   Please contact me via Facebook if you seriously want these questions answered.

  • sam

    I am sorry but HH girls, yall are giving yourselves a bad image when every single abuse website’s comments are streams of HH girls arguing. I am grateful to Mark Levine for doing this but every single abuse website is for thousands of kids in America not just HH.

  • Kristi_Hunt

    And you wouldn’t have had the oppurtunity to make that first step up the stairs because you always had a staff member tailing you. And by the way what was the off the wall crazy things these girls were doing there. The ones that almost made you pants shoot off. And when the heck were you allowed to wear pants there??

  • Kristi_Hunt

    Of course you didn’t witness anything. You would have had to walk up the stairs and break through the LOCKED door and go into the room were the punishment was being administered. DUH

  • piper

    I was happy to hear about kids being sent out of the country to schools and camps, I went to a school in Mexico started by Americans and I can relate to so many of the stories mentioned here, but no one seems to care or realize it is not just in the U.S.

  • Kristi_Hunt

    On the Hephzibah House discussion Sarah failed to mention that part of her job description was to shadow students. Watch their every move and the students had to talk loud enough so staff could hear every word. And Lucinda was restrained. In the Anderson Cooper interview she admitted to being spanked there. Also when you were spanked the would lay you face down and put a chair over your head and hold you down. They said it was for your safety??? Although I was lucky enough not to get spanked but I remember reading this procedure in the meeting before we were taken away from our parents. There was also humilatian tactics. And although Sarah was there in 2003 and on most students claiming abuse there were there years prior.  I believe the previous students who have come foward have maybe stopped alot of things that went on there. Which is a blessing but being in the spolight like that and the alegations being made forced them to change some of their methods.

  • Gabriella

    Mark, thank you for this excellent broadcast.  I am a survivor of Hephzibah House (not a former staff, but truly a survivor).  I appreciate your committment to spreading the truth about this abusive home and dozens of others!
    Gabriella
    http://www.formerhephzibahgirls.webs.com

  • http://www.facebook.com/ShellyMeridethAdams Shelly Merideth-Adams

    Thank you for exposing HH and the other hell holes abusing children. My story of abuse at HH can be found here: http://untamedwhisper.blogspot.com

  • Srstumphf

    Hephzibah House needs to be closed down for good! Thank you so much for speaking out about these “treatment centers”.

  • Tabithaeck1213

    So i read more girl claims to have exam downstairs in closet on table and a rectal exam she saus she was also made to wear another girls dirty red socks on her period because she just got there and had no moneyy on her books yet. The socks is a new one. Then a girl said as soon as she left she filed child abuse charges against hh but was told they were closed. It doesnt matter if the organization you r filing against closes or not you are not filing charges on the organization you are filing charges on the person that runs the program. So i find that really hard to believe as well.

  • Tabithaeck1213

    Also o was just reading some more survivors statements. Alot of girls have different stories. One says the exam was given in a bedroom on a bed. Another says it was a closet in the basement on girl said she was tKen to a drs office and had it done off campus. So who os telling the truth? Did they just pick a different room and location for each girl? This is where its confuaing and hard to believe any of them. Im going to read some more and see what others say.

  • Tabithaeck1213

    One more rhing susan. Just in case you may think i am brainwashed by the ifb. A few people on tim dunkins site believe i am. I just want to say that i DO NOT trust any pastor ifb or not i lost all my faith and trust in them when i watched my pastor of 15 years the man that married me and my husband the man that counseled us through our rough times the man who held my little girls in his arms and prayed over them he raped two women and then hung himself in prison. I lost all trust amd faith that day. I left all churches and we teach at home now. If o was. Brainwashed by ifb i would still be in thY church agreeing that he disnt do it people made it up and he killed himself out of not knowing what else to do. That is crazy. The evidence supports what he was accused of. The proof was there. And even of by chance he didnt rape them and they agreed because one of them was a prostitute so lets say they wete willing and then later for whtever reason they lied and said he raped them. Either way he was wrong. He taught me for 15 uears that you are to be faithful to your husbandhow wrong it was to commit adultry how it was a sin punishable by god and then he goes and steps out of his marriage. Thay would have been wnough for me to walk away from the church. He became a hypocite the day he chose to have sex with someone other than his wife. So anywYs this is why i steer clear of churches and pastors im very scared. That could have been one of my daughters that he held. However i am slowly starting to go to different churches and explore. We are praying for god to show us where it is we need to be and we will wait and prY for his answer to our prayer. Not sure why i said all this i guess to prove in a sense im not easy brainwashed. I love the lord and i love serving him but my head tells me alot too. It allows me to make my own decisions.

  • Tabithaeck1213

    Susan…
    I am assuming they occured. I do not know. I never had one there and noone ever mentioned it. I know that according to what i read in the handbook that it stated each girl was to receive the exam either before coming or have hhs dr do the exam. So that tells me that there must have been some type of examination done. And if girls were down in the basement in a closet screaming as loud as they could im quite sure someone would have heard it. As far as not taking the girls off the property to a clinic im guessing for saftey reasons you take girls that really dont want to be there and that is a good chance they will run. So they had a dr there. But im not even sure about that. Susan.. some of the stuff i read just doesnt connect and since its your page maybe you can explain..
    My daughter is asthmatic and has allergies to everything. If she has an attack and does not get her inhaler chances are she can die. A couple girls stated that they were refused their inhaler and were having asthma attacks. I was allowed my inhaler there. So i have a hard time believing they would take a chance on someones life and let them die saying they were not really having an attack. They could have been sued and held liable for her death. Pretty amazing that she was able to breath again. My asthma is not as severe as my daughters but same thing when an attack hits there is nothing i can do but use my inhaler but black coffee sometimes will help if its not a full blown attack. And another girl said she was having an allergic reaction. And they would not give her her eppipen. me and my daughter both have those. And while im no dr i know that if a bee stings me or she eats nuts and we dont take that shot within minutes our throats and tongues swell and then our airways shut. I find it amazing that hh refused her the eppipen and she survived. So while some things i could believe others have made up such crazy stories that i just dont believe any of it. Which is really sad because if something really did happen the ones making up such crazy stories makes all of you look bad. And what father is going to watch patty williams call 6 of her sons in to hold this little girl down while she beats her all over and then hands the rod to ron williamd and he beats her from top to her knees then gives thr rod to her father and says now you beat her you spoiled her and the fayher wiyh tears runnibg down his face beat her too then leaves crying. what???? I guess ron had the father brainwashed too. And if ron williams should be in jail or shut down for doing that then if it truly happened that girl needs to put her father in jail too. Because he watched Nd allowed and even joined in so says this girl. JS are the initials of the girl. Susan i was probably one of thr worst behaved girls there i broke every rule and probably some they didnt have as rules and i never once received the treatment you guys describe. So why? Why not me? I should have been beaten and beayen till i couldnt move but i eas only ever given 3 swats. Numerous times a week but 3 thats it and noone held me down or pulled up my dress. I bent over the chair. So basically he let yhe very bad ones get away with only 3 swats but for very minor infractions he beat the tar out of them. Sounds backwards to me.

  • http://www.facebook.com/susan.grotte Susan Grotte

    Tabithaeck,  you agree the exams were given.  We know they occurred for the most part,  in the closet room in the basement.   That is not disputed,  correct? 
    Why?  Why not take these girls to a proper clinic?

  • Tabithaeck1213

    No i was never given a vaginal exam while i was there. I also find that hard to believe. While there may have been exams of that sort done i highly doubt they were laying on the floor having it done. Girls have claimed to had had the exams and state they were forced but it was on a table in a closet or room. The floor is a new one to me. Also i believe the parents were informed that their daughter needed to be seen by a dr for that before coming or it could be done at hh by a dr there. Once patents give the permission for hh to have their dr do the exam it is not considered a forced action. I realize the girls say they were forced but parents gave consent for that. I know people may think that i am unsympathetic about the situation and im really not. To hear such these things are awful and if the stories didnt change from one sote to the next and not all have changed or added to them but some have that is what makes it hard to believe anyone. If you are goung to put your survivor story up on different sites that are all linked together at least make sure that they match. It would be more believable then. And let me repeat not all the girls stories have been added to or changed just some of them.

  • http://www.facebook.com/susan.grotte Susan Grotte

    No this did not happen to me.  That does not mean it did not happen.

  • seeking truth

    There are also many things on this web site as well.
    http://www.hephzibahhouse.org

  • Question for Tabithaeck1213

    Tabithaeck1213…were you given a forced vaginal exam on the floor of a closet by an unknown man while crying and screaming for him to stop?  This is what others are saying…did this happen to you?

  • http://www.facebook.com/susan.grotte Susan Grotte

    Right,  I had the luxury and opportunity of getting fertility treatment.  That does not negate the FACT that about 80% of the girls who were there with me in the early 80′s had the exact same problems with miscarriage and infertility when they left Hephzibah house.  

  • Tabithaeck1213

    Simone.. i dont just feel i wasnt abused i KNOW i wasnt. You do not know my parenting skills and you do not know me as a person. I love all five of my . children. We have tried the structered parenting with our 12 year old since she was 7 we have given love and compassion to her but the fact is that my other childrens life were in danger. My 6 year olds clavical bone was broken in two places by her. She almost thre our baby out of the car while i waadriving. She beat and tormented the 8 year old. She stabbed with acutco knife not a butter knife my 13 year old straight through her hand and lit her bed on fire. At school she threw a girl through a glass door as well as assaulted some teachers. She cornered my husband with 2 knives until he gave up. Do not tell me about love and compassion i love her with everything i have. I also love my other children also. Its was by the grace of god the state didnt step in and take her out of our home for being a danger to the other children. It breaks my heart that she cannot be home where she belongs but not at the risk of the other kids. She is not going through a teenage phase of finding out who she is she is deeply hurting and troubled inside. I wont stop fighting for her to be able to return home and with god on our side i have a glimmer of hope. So please dont assume to think not all parents dont have love amd compassion for their kids. And also. I beloeve you may have been in one of those awful horrible homes but you were never in hh just as i was never in the home you were which is why i have nothing to say but im sorry when you say they abused you. I wasnt there just as you were not at hh.
    Take care
    Tabitha

  • Simone

    Tabitha,
    I am sorry to hear that you would place your child in a confirmedly abusive facility. IF you could have afforded it…There are many other ways to deal with a ‘troubled teen’. Being a mother of 5 myself, as well as a survivor of one of these horrific places, I chose structured parenting, with love and compassion, for each and every one of my children. I find it heartbreaking that a parent can label their child as ‘troubled’, when in most cases they are perfectly normal. The teenaged years are by far the hardest to go through, for both the child and the parent. Making the transition, and finding out who they are as they are approaching into adulthood, with their own opinions, choices, life dreams, careers, and so many other things around the corner, can be a stressful time in a teens life. It seems to me that if more parents would understand this, instead of labeling thier own children as ‘troubled’, there wouldn’t be the need for this discussion. So, because of the lack of structured parenting, and the fraudulent advertising on the part of places such as HH, (and so many more) we now have a community of damaged survivors, who should have been respected as children, but instead were deemed ‘troubled teens’, for just being normal human beings. Children/teens were abused at HH, there are many accounts of this happening. I am however glad to hear that you feel that you weren’t one of them. *<3* Simone

  • Tabithaeck1213

    Thanks for answering!

  • http://www.facebook.com/rjgrotte Rodney Grotte

    We had great difficulty having kids early on with 5 miscarriages.   My wife required hormone treatments to successful carry a child to term.  FTR we have 12 kids  To your other questions, they are answered at length on the website, 

    http://hephzibah-girls.blogspot.com/ 

  • Tabithaeck1213

    Jist a question susan… Im in no way being disrespectful. By fertility issues do you mean too much hormones because you have ten kids so i cant see that you mean infertility. Can u explain? My coisin has infertilty issues and has been trying for 8 years with no success. Also the hormones in the milk? The milk was poured from one container they didnt give milk to certain girls from different containers. Alot say you didnt menustrate but a whole lot of us did. Confused on that.
    Thanks

  • http://www.facebook.com/rjgrotte Rodney Grotte

    Susan has a website that includes many statements, documents, pictures etc.  For any here who do not have a deep knowledge of the vile abuses or ron williams and Hephzibah House here is a ton of information.  

    http://www.hephzibah-girls.blogspot.com/p/hephziban-house-in-news.html 

  • http://www.facebook.com/susan.grotte Susan Grotte

    Hello Mark,  As a survivor of HH I would like to get a chance to speak if you air another show on these homes.  The big issue to me is that in America you can lock up a child for 1-4 years of their life and they have no advocate and no civil liberties.  I understand that it is the parent or guardian who imprisoned them,  but it really should be addressed.  These private homes are a money train for the person running the enterprise.  They have no training,  no supervision, no accountability or oversight.  
    I was at Hephzibah House and did not menstruate for almost three years.  I have the medical records to prove I had fertility issues just like so many girls who was there with me and did not menstruate. 
    There are women who have scars to this day from there beatings at HH.  
    There are pictures and medical records that prove we lost incredible unhealthy amounts of weight. 
    When Williams was investigated he evaded the authorities by hiding me and several others in a church.  
    Williams changed tactics and overfed girls until they cried in pain,  or allowed them to menstruate,  but shamed and tortured them over it.   He could no longer beat the girls until they were bruised and bleeding so he began the unspeakable torture of the violent forced vaginal exams on crying children in a closet room.  
    It was all about terror and control and this sick twisted man has little girls in his basement right now.  Perhaps because we keep HH in the media he will be a little kinder to those girls.  Perhaps we can spare them his next enlightened method to break the will.  We can hope but we have no idea because the girls in his care are ghosts with no voice.  They are not even allowed to cry to their own parents.  
    It appears that there is no current law to protect these children.  We need to change the law.  

  • Tabithaeck1213

    Oh ok.lol i was wondering why it was doing that;)

  • Graceblog

    There certainly IS abuse at Hephzibah House. If you want to hear a further investigation of the torture and abuse that the young women at Hephzibah House endure, go here and listen to this series of interviews:
    http://www.jeriwho.net/tlohh.html

  • http://www.radioinsidescoop.com Mark Levine

    Tabitha and Anthony:

    In order to avoid the “too narrrow” column, you have to begin again at the top with “Add New Comment”

  • http://www.facebook.com/people/Anthony-Connelly/1001885479 Anthony Connelly

    I appreciate that, thank you. And I want to thank you also for presenting your views in a very reasonable way.

  • http://www.facebook.com/people/Anthony-Connelly/1001885479 Anthony Connelly

    After my program experience I left my Christian upbringing behind. I chose to become Agnostic after leaving that awful place. I am only interested in the truth. Sorry, if you are trying to convince me with words alone you might as well try to shoot a gun without any bullets. (:

  • Tabithaeck1213

    Yes i do understand why you would believe first amd then ask for proof. In your situation that happened to you it is totally undersyandable. I guess we agree to disagree;) i hope and pray one day something comes out that everyone can finally know who is lying and who is telling the truth;-) take care and thanks for discussing your feelings about the whole situation.
    Tabitha

  • http://www.facebook.com/people/Anthony-Connelly/1001885479 Anthony Connelly

    I wanted to comment on one more thing. The women speaking out against HH have every right to do so. Just as you have every right to dispute their claims. I admit that I am biased having suffered at the hands of manipulative charlatans pretending to be experts in the treatment of children. It’s the numbers of people that come forward that persuade me to believe them. I just don’t believe they are all lying. In addition, there are hundreds if not thousands of people coming forward from all around the country exposing and in some cases closing these abusive programs. My point is that institutional abuse has happened, is happening and those who are guilty always lie and try to slip out of trouble. Due to the circumstances and the nature of this issue, I find it much more appropriate to take all reports of abuse as truth until proven otherwise. I hope you understand that I am not calling you a liar, just that I do believe abuse happened at HH whether you witnessed it or understood that it was abuse. As for the comment about being brainwashed, it is what I believe. No person who is brainwashed ever knows it. That is part of why it is such an insidious status. I was brainwashed and it lasted for a long time, perhaps I am still somewhat changed by it.  For me to change my opinion on HH, I would need Ron Williams to show an enormous amount of transparency. 

  • Tabithaeck1213

    Im not saying press charges. I realize too much time has lapsed for that but they can get documentation from drs and such to at least prove to us unbelievers that look here is proof look at the xrays look at the now jealed over lacerations. Something. I didnt send my. children to piblic schools either and my sisters chidren were homeschooled as well. My children they are older and we have instilled tje best in them and now we have them in public school. Alot of ofb or baptists usually do not send tjeir children to public school they stay in church school or are homeschooled. I was in a group home called hoffman homes rin by the state and we went to school on campus not off campus and we were not allowed to leave the campus without staff supervision. O lived tjere i know. I will never be able to convince you or anyone else tjat hh was not abusive and you cannot convince me they are. Unless some type of proof comes to light we may just have to wait till the lord comes and we all face judgement day. Then the tuth will come out on whoevers side;)
    Tabitha

  • http://www.facebook.com/people/Anthony-Connelly/1001885479 Anthony Connelly

    I think many of your assumptions are incorrect. For example, many of the girls made attempts to press charges against HH but so much time had passed that the statute of limitations for those crimes had expired. Why is it that you defend the Williams and HH but they will not defend themselves? I find that bizarre. As for things like the bm board or checking of sanitary napkins, etc., I simply do not accept that these things were done for any other reason than humiliation and degradation. I have a friend who works for child services in KY and she said she has never heard of something so ridiculous…and she is upper level staff at a girl’s home. In this particular state home, the girls aren’t allowed to call anytime they like but they are allowed several calls per week which are unmonitored. Also, these girls are not prohibited from going to a normal school outside of the home.

  • Tabithaeck1213

    One more thing sorry. Hh is a non profit organization so it is not controlled by the state as some homes for kids are. Like i explained to mark the spankings were twentyor more years ago i doubt they even do that anymore and back years ago it was as big of a deal as it is today to spank a child. I was always afraid because i was told abuse is a cycle so i thought i would end up abusing my kids and i didnt spank them for a while but as i studied the bible more and more i understand that spanking your child out of love for them is not abuse. I never spank them when im upset or angry and i always hug them and tell them after that i love them and my kids love me and not out of fear. Im glad for hh teaching me gods will and his purpose for my life back then even tho i didnt listen to them then i remembered it years later and found my way back to the lord. If it wasnt for them teaching me i may have very easily became an abuser as well but thank the lord i was able to break that chain for me and my kids. Thats it. Sorry im a little longwinded;)
    Take care

  • Tabithaeck1213

    Anthony. Thank you for your reply. I guess me and the other girls are the proof that while we were there we can 100% say there was no abuse. I realize and understand you and marks feelings on the monitoring of mail and phonecalls and yes it does raise a red flag. However the stories the girls are telling the girls i was there with were not abused. They said girls were beaten so hard you could hear their screams from the dorm room. I guess i was deaf for a moment then. And please i ask that you do not insinuate i am brainwashed. I was abused i had to put the man in jail. I do not discount anyone saying they were abused. But the stories they r telling just simply did not happen. We would have seen or heard these girls getting called up to the blue room. This is my point if there is even a small amount of truth to what someone is saying these other girls that are outright lying and fabricating stories are making it so if someone was really abised there its not believed. I do not take my children to church anymore i am afraid my pastor of many many years i loved him i respected him he baptized me and he married me and my husband. He played and prayed with my children. My children went to his church school. My whole family went to that church. This man raped two women and then hung himself in prison last year. I was crushed i trusted this man with my family with me with my daughters. This was an ifb church. Some say he didnt do it. See if i was so brainwashed i would probably side with the others but i saw proof. There was evidence. I believed he was guilty. If there is even a tiny bit of proof chances are i would believe these girls. But i know the ones that were there when i was there are lying. Some of those girls were considered staff favorites. They were the well behaved ones. I was the unruly.wanted to do my own thing girl and nobody was going to tell me otherwise. Explain to me why then wasnt i held down and beaten? Whybdont i share the same stories as these other girls? Why? Because when i was there what they say did not happen. I no doubt believe their are cults out there that try to suck the life out of our children and abuse our kids but thay is not ron williams. And i cant answer why he doesnt speak to the media i would imagine he is quite distraut over the entire situation. Wouldnt you be if you were accused and judged based on words alone? If the court system relyed on just peoples word more than half our country would be in jail. I had a hard time trusting men for a long timr because of what happened to me but i fely very comfortable and safe with the williams family. While again they were very strict and some peculiar rules i felt safe for the first time in a long time. All i want is for some type of proof something. These girls are saying they have health complications to this day stemming from hh. If they now have the strength to come forward on cnn and write blogs and just so u know it took me three years to come forward so i know about being scared to do it but it seems that they have finally found their voice so dont you think they would eant to get any little shred of evidence and shut this place down? A dr can do xrays. Severe lacerations like they claim wouldnt just disappear they can be found. Then its not just their word alone because we all know people can be evil and nasty and do horrible acts to other people just to make themself feel better just like the man that abused me and whoever abused you. And again im very sorry for whatever you went through.
    Tabitha

  • http://www.facebook.com/people/Anthony-Connelly/1001885479 Anthony Connelly

    Tabitha, 

    Ron and Don Williams have refused to come forward and defend themselves. If it were me being accused, I would go straight to the media (who repeatedly asked the Williams for an interview) and proclaim my innocence. Instead they have hidden from the public just as those who abused me have remained silent. You ask for proof that abuse occured, I ask you for proof that it did not occur.After the program experience some people remain brainwashed and others come to realize what happened. I find it difficult to take you seriously because your argument is the same argument abusers use to deflect from their crimes. If HH really wants to prove it’s innocence, why are the doors still closed off to the outside world? I am forced to speculate because the Williams refuse to come forward and be forthright. I fully agree with Mark, one of the reasons I was tortured in KHK was because I could not communicate with the outside world. There simply is no GOOD reason to limit communication except to hide the abuses. Had I been able to speak with my parents, I might have been able to leave that cult.I suppose the words torture and abuse may be subjective terms. But the laws are fairly clear about what is and isn’t child abuse, which is why it is so important that these programs are inspected thoroughly. Again, I agree with Mark, programs that work with minors should be transparent with their methods, including open communication between children and their parents, the police, child protective services and a legal guardian ad litem, etc. I hope this answers your questions.

  • Tabithaeck1213

    Mark.. these were there rules some twenty years ago. Back then it wasnt this big ordeal to spank a child like it is today. I do think that as tje years went by they did stop the spanking. Even in christian schools they spank children 3 swats if deemed necessary mostly there tho they call the parents in to give the spanking or if they r unable the pastor does. It is just what they believe the bible says to do. I spank my children if they do something that warrants it but with one of my children a spabking means nothing she says it just happens and is over in a few minutes so we dont spank her griunding works better. She doesnt like it because it lasts longer spabkings are fast and over and done with. It would be interesting if you could meet with pastor williams and get his take on all of this and why tje rules were and are the way they are;)
    Tabitha

  • http://www.radioinsidescoop.com Mark Levine

    As to your second point, I don’t believe that just because a man sexually assaults one girl, he will necessarily attempt a sexual abuse on every girl he comes in contact with.  And if it’s solely a he-said/she-said situation, a rapist will get away because one is innocent until proven guilt and proof beyond a reasonable doubt is required for a conviction.

    That’s why I — and I hope you — encourage children who are the subject of abuse to call 911 immediately and finger their abuser. These calls are monitored and if something happens to you after you call 911, the perpetrator is known and can usually be prosecuted. It’s no longer he-said/she-said.  You might still fear violence while you wait for the authorities to arrive, but if you tell someone assaulting you that if he harms you, he’ll be prosecuted, you might just stop the slimeball in his tracks.

  • Tabithaeck1213

    Thanks for your reply. I may have come off a little snobbish and im sorry for that. I also understand that some maybe alot of these places did indeed commit these awful acts. And i feel so much sadness in my heart for those people. Also understand your feelings on the monitored phonecalls it could raise that red flag but what people are not being told is that told is the parents are made aware of every little rule and regulation before signing their child in. As i stated i was a troublemaker and made life very diffocult for ron williams and the staff i broke every rule imaginable and was never beaten or abused. The reason i do not believe some of the girls is because i was there with quite a few of them and when someone was called upstairs to the blue room evwryone knew it it was said on a loudspeaker. I can almost guarentee and im not proud of this but was called up more than anyone else. One of the girls who said she was taken up every day and beaten is somply untrue. I dont ever temember her being called up. That is why i question what they say. The other places i dont know i was not there and i know nothing about them. But i do know hh and like i said there may have heen some strange rules but those people were truly good people that cared about where we would end up if we didnt change our ways. I was angry being at hh. I didnt want to be there and when i got out and became an adult i messed my life up tremendously. But after i was able to get my self together and i got saved when i was 23 years old and then and only then did i truly understand what hh was doing and it all made sense. I am not an ifb so to say i am baptist and i do not attend church regular anymore( after my pastor whom i loved and respected hung himself in prison for raping two women) so i do believe even the best of best christians and pastors can fall and do evil i saw it happen. By the way we teach our children at home now at least until i can get over my fear. But because of that i really do lisyen to what people say about ifb pastors or pastors of any kind. Because i lnow they can do evil things. These girls stories changed from website to website. One girl said when she arrived after they said they do apank the children there she stood up to leave and patty williams grabbed her and called in 6 of her sons 6 of them for a small girl and all 6 boys held het down while patty beat her then handed the rod to pastor williams and he beat her from top of her body to her knees and then you wont believe this pastor williams gave the rod to this girls father and told him to beat her. Thats just a little over the top. What father would watch his little girl held down by 6 boys and watch her get beat then join in. I doubt if they were trying to hide abuse they would ask the parents to join in. This is why i have a hard time believing their stories and everytime u read the stories they add stuff to it. The real sad part avout it is…if there was ever a time that a girl was abused there the girls changing their syories all the time and adding rediculous stuff to them make it very hard for anyone that could have been abused. I think its wonderful that you are trying to expose the places that truly are a danger to our children and i just wish their was a way to prove hh was abusive if they were but i honestly believe they never did what these girls claim if so i should have been half dead from the beatings. I bent over a chair got three swats then pastor and whoever the female staff was tjat was in the room. He was never alone with any girl no man there was .they would explain what i did and sgowed me in the bible what it said and pray with me. That is what i saw later in life that showed me they really loved and cared for me. I have been beaten before and was never explained why or what i did just held down and beaten. My sisters had to hold me and my step dad beat me and with a belt and stopped when his atm got tired. So i know the diffetence and i was so little when he did that around 6 or 7. So it was very diffetent at hh.
    Thanks for listening
    Tabitha

  • http://www.radioinsidescoop.com Mark Levine

    Tabitha,

    First of all, thank you for writing.  I didn’t take your call (and others’ calls) because I ran out of time.  Three hours (which is only two hours after you subtract for commercials) goes very fast and you were in line with the others. You were not the only person left hanging on when the show ended. I will do more shows on this topic in the future.

    It is true that I have great sympathy with the many people who have told me about the abuse they say they suffered in these many institutions. But I also want to hear both sides. As you know, I kept Sarah, the staffer from HH on air for a very long time — more than 15 minutes with one caller! — because I wanted to hear her side of the story.  If I didn’t want to hear her, I could have ended the call much more quickly.  (I even went way over my allotted time, which is why my next time between breaks was only a minute long)

    Let me address some of the points you raise above:
    1.  As I said on air, the monitored phone calls and letters is perhaps the thing that concerns me most. I wasn’t a witness to any of the horrors I’ve heard people talk about, but it is precisely the monitoring that allows the abuses, if they occur, to occur.  You heard the woman who said she was sexually assaulted by the Director of a program (not HH). How could she complain about it when her calls are monitored?  What would happen to her if she called the police on a monitored phone call?  Might she reasonably fear great danger? I won’t harp on this because I said so many times on air, but we live in an open society and our ability to speak out to right a wrong is one of America’s greatest freedoms, perhaps it is the very definition of a free society.

    2. I didn’t say children under 18 should have a right to speak without limitation to their boyfriends or girlfriends. I was defending the right to speak (unmonitored) to their parents or other legal guardian. I also think they should have the right to speak (unmonitored) to police, attorneys, ministers, psychologists, or similar authority figures who could take action if abuse is occurring.

    3. I’m truly sorry the parents sign these forms. In my last show, I interviewed a Government investigator who posed as parents and was lied to by one of these so-called treatment centers (not HH, to my knowledge).  People sign forms all the time and they don’t know what they’re signing.  I regret that.  And there are some pretty awful parents out there too.  Still doesn’t justify the abuse in my mind.

    4. I know at least two instances where young adults over 18 were prevented from leaving, one was discussed by the woman doing the documentary (Kate Logan) on this very show.

    And lastly, I do understand why abused and scared children do not go immediately to authorities.  I understand why women who have just been raped are afraid as well.  To be sure,  I STRONGLY encourage victims of physical or sexual abuse to go to the authorities.  It’s the only way to eventually stop the abuse.  So I hate the silence.  But I understand it.

    Thanks for writing..

  • http://www.radioinsidescoop.com Mark Levine

    You’re right that parents have to give the authority for a stranger to spank their child. I’m sorry the parents did so here.  And I find it astonishing that HH won’t accept any girl they can’t legally spank.

    Why is the ability to administer physical discipline ESSENTIAL to HH, so essential that they will reject a girl’s application (and her parents’ money) solely on the ground that they cannot legally hit her?

    Seems kinda sadistic to me…I don’t think physical punishment of a teenager is ever necessary, except to restrain him or her from violence. But that’s not
    physical punishment.  That’s self defense (and defense of others).  And it’s perfectly legal, even without permission.

  • http://www.radioinsidescoop.com Mark Levine

    You’re right that parents have to give the authority for a stranger to spank their child. I’m sorry the parents did so here.  And I find it astonishing that HH won’t accept any girl they can’t legally spank.

    Why is the ability to administer physical discipline ESSENTIAL to HH, so essential that they will reject a girl’s petition (and her parents’ money) solely on the ground that they cannot legally hit her?

    Seems kinda sadistic to me…I don’t think physical punishment is ever necessary, except to restrain others from violence. But that’s not physical punishment.  That’s self defense (and defense of others).  And it’s perfectly legal.

  • http://www.radioinsidescoop.com Mark Levine

    Sarah, I doubled checked with my producer. He is confident that he heard you TWICE say you were a survivor, once in response to him asking you and once with you saying so directly. I did not hear the call, but I trust my producer and take him at his word and therefore will not apologize.

    That being said, whether survivor or staff, I do want your point of view. I just want callers to be honest. If I sounded harsh to you, it’s only because I have tremendous concern for the victims of these crimes and I strongly disapprove of your practice of monitoring calls.  As I told you on the air, the fact that HH will not let children have unmonitored calls with their parents is, to me, very strong evidence that abuse is occurring.  Otherwise, why would you care?  A private call between a kid and a parent is none of your business.

    If you want to protect Hep House’s reputation — and it’s clear you do — I strongly advise you to advise them to allow the children unmonitored telephone calls and visits. If the children falsely accuse HH, HH has recourse. But I don’t believe HH has the legal authority to monitor these calls without a search warrant.  I don’t know the laws of Indiana, but I wouldn’t be surprised if the mere fact of monitoring is a criminal violation. Perhaps you make the parents sign that right away. 

    But remember kids are people too. And they have long memories.

    At the end of our call, you seemed to understand where I was coming from regarding the evil of monitoring and the danger for abuse.  Please let me know if you will commit to calling Hep House and asking them to end that practice.

    If they do end the censorship/monitoring, please let me know as I will praise them on air.  And if they don’t end the practice, I will condemn them in public and to my Member of Congress.

    I was monitored when I visited the Soviet Union many years ago.  I understand why dictators do it. I don’t understand why a free country needs to do it to children who have committed no crime.  That’s why we have the Fourth Amendment.

    Despite our disagreements, I sincerely thank you for calling in.

    Mark

  • Tabithaeck1213

    Mark… When your parents sign a consent form stating that if a child needs to be spanked the parents gove their permission ro do so. So therefore it is not child abuse. Like you said in your eyes it is but again your take on the situation wouldnt really hold up in court. If parents would have said i dont want my child spanked then they would not have accepted the girl. Again parents gave hh the permission to spank if needed and if i remember correctly when a child was spanked the parents were notified of it and the reason why and the kids were encouraged to tell their parwnts in letter and phone that the punishment happened and why.

  • Tabithaeck1213

    Anthony and mark…. One more thing.. if some girls were accusing you of sexual acts and their stories all matched each others and then there were just 2 girls saying those things never happened and you knew you never did it would you want everyone to believe the bunch of girls thay had no proof but because there were a bunch of them and there were only 2 that were saying it wasnt true. That is basically what you r saying that because there are so many we have to believe it guess what thete are more girls that say nothing happened then the ones that say it did. So if its a nimbers game then the ones that say it didnt happen win by your stamdards right? Fact is if it was you this was happening to i believe you would call the binch of girls liars and demand proof of there accusations. It would be a whole different story then. Fact is people tend to believe the bad stuff because its just more exciting.

  • Tabithaeck1213

    Simone… Yes if i could have afforded it i would have put my daughter there instead of different hospitals that just want to drug her up and think that fixes her problem. I was a troubled girl when i was there i broke every single rule imaginable just to test my waters so to speak and i was never held down and beaten with a chair over me. I was told to bend over the chair and was given 3 swats and this happened quite a few times. So if they were going to beat the bad out of the kids i would have been the perfect canidate. I can honestly say i was probably the most rebellious out of the group of girls i was there with there may have been one other one but i was at the top of the list and was never held down or beaten and never feared for my life.

  • Tabithaeck1213

    Anthony…. Hi i was a student at hh about 20 or so years ago. I didnt get a chance to speak last night which is no surprise. Notice how both people from hh were understood to be aurvivors? I told tjem outright i was not an abused survivor and i experienced no abuse and they put me on hold and never took my call. Funny. First of all kids were allowed phonecalls to their parents. When bringing a child there parents were told and had to sign consent forms that noted…
    1 all phonecallswill be monitored by a staff member.
    I believe this was because the end result was to reunite these kids with their parents and they wanted the phonecalls to be about positive and future not about the past and the had stuff.
    2. All incoming and outgoing mail will be censored.
    This also for the same reasons as the phonecalls. Also girls who were very sexual with boys before they came and had boyfriends they didnt want any contact with them. The reason the parwnts spent their money to send the girls there was to get them out of the bad situation they were in so if they r still communicating with those same people the parents were just wasting their money.
    3 this was and ifb. Their beliefs and things are different than most. None of the things thay went on were hidden feom the parents. If the parents had a problem with the way they monitored the calls and mail ththen they wouldnt sign and the child would not be accepted into the program. Simple as that. Everything was in black anf white. So it was on the parwnts to make the decision to leave the child there and accept the rules or take them home and find a less restrictive place.
    4 mark asked the two ladies that called in from hh last night… Were you free to leave when you wanted to? Remember we are dealing with kids under 18 so no they could not just sign out and leave when they felt like it. However the program was for 15 months and their parents signed a contract for that amount of time but if for whatever reason the parents de ided to pull the child out of the program even tho it was discouraged they could fill out a withdrawl paper and take them home. If you were 18 or over then it was ultimately your choice to go or stay.
    5. Checking bms? No they never came into the bathroom and looked in the toilet.lol but we had 30 or so girls and for health reasons they had to make sure each girl was going regular so as not to get any health issues. It was just easier to mark a sheet when u went to the bathroom.
    6. The checking of sanitary napkins…they had to make sure the girls were wrapping them up and putting in the trash can because girls were very ignorant and were flushing them down the toilet even tho they knew they were not supposed to flush them. As im sure you know if you have 6 to 8 girls flushing all of them for 4 days when they are on u can imagine the problems they haf with the septic tanks getting backed up. If my 4 girls were doing that and i had to pay numerous amounts of monet to unblock my septic i may be be inclined to have them show me they put them in the trash anf not the toilet.
    Were some of the rules weird or peculiar? Yes i guess to an outsider they are. But were they abusive? Not in any way. We had the freedom of speech we were just encouraged to talk about the positive in our life instead of the past negative. I have made so many posts about this situation and i have come to tye conclusion the two sides will never come together and its pointless to try. The facts are…
    Hh has been investigated numerous times and nothing was found to be abusive in any way. Not one girl that has made a complaint has sought out a lawyer to bring charges on the place. The girls say they have health problems to this day because of hh. Where r the documents from the dr? The girls say they were beaten so bad they had welts and bleeding. Those scars do not just disapear. Not to the extent of the injuries these girls say they had like lacerations? If i woukd have been abused like that and it took a few years to come out about it i certainly woukd not be just writing on blogs and trying to convince people i was abused and dont send your kids there i would be going to every dr and have xrays done and try to get some evidence of the abuse. Even a little something and then proceed to have the place shut down. Funny none of these girls want to bring charges against hh why?? They say they just want to get their stories out so other people wont send their kids their. Me personally i do not believe everything i hear i at least need some type of proof even just a small piece anything to put doubt in my mind. There are so many people in this world who are just angry and bitter about their mess of a life and believe it or not can and will make stories up to make other people miserable too. The law says you are innocent until proven guilty. Hh is innocent and until one of these girls can prove otherwise then i think they r just blowing hot air and honestly have nothing goung on in their lives that they decided to get some fame on tv. Its ridiculous.
    Im in no way saying these other homes were not abusive yes you look guilty when you settle out of court for a million or so dollars. Or try to give hush money as the one girl said. But hh stands their ground and by the truth.
    Thanks for listening

  • http://www.facebook.com/people/Anthony-Connelly/1001885479 Anthony Connelly

    At 1:06:00 in the audio posted here You really put it well Mark. The same story, the same methods. It’s the same type of mistreatment in all programs. It is bizarre, but as you can see… this is a widespread problem. This was originally why I decided to protest open programs 4 years ago. And at 1:22:00 you really nailed the program supporter. Communication with parents should always be allowed, especially in the beginning. Thanks for exposing that red flag! And continuing to call her out on all the points to expose the truth. That was so so so sweet. I could hear the attorney in you taking over. Great examination.

  • http://www.facebook.com/people/Anthony-Connelly/1001885479 Anthony Connelly

    Right now, close to the top of this page, there is a player that you can use to listen to the show. Later, it may be moved to the right side of the page as an archived audio.

  • Simone

    I had the same problem. I was at work, and really wanted to listen….But I cant get it to play?

  • Simone

    So, being held down, with a chair and being beaten was NOT abuse? Watching other CHILDEN wearing diapers was NOT abuse? Forced vaginal exams was NOT abuse? Being terrified of the consequenses, IF you did not accept their religion was NOT abuse? Just because YOU feel that things ‘weren’t THAT bad’, in no way can discredit the hundreds of survivors that have a completely different opinion than yours.
    Would YOU place YOUR daughter in HH? I seriously doubt it………
    heal-online.org

  • Mark Levine

    I’m going to double-check with my producer. If I was wrong, I will publicly apologize.

  • Simone

    Hello Mark!
    You can find out much about each and every program/home @ heal-online.org. We have complete staff lists, complaints, as well as survivor statements! Thank you so much for taking this on! *<3* Simone Jones-Kansas HEAL Coordinator…heal-online.org

  • http://www.facebook.com/people/Anthony-Connelly/1001885479 Anthony Connelly

    As if I didn’t have enough to dislike the guy for already…   (:

  • http://www.facebook.com/people/Anthony-Connelly/1001885479 Anthony Connelly

    Teenagers are too old for spankings, that’s ridiculous. I do not agree with beatings and that is more likely what occured at Hephzibah House. Abusers like to muddy the waters by changing the language of abuse. And I have never heard that the word NO is child abuse…where do you read this garbage Lucinda?

  • http://www.facebook.com/people/Anthony-Connelly/1001885479 Anthony Connelly

    Well, apparently a lot of the other girls saw plenty of abuse there. I think you are still brainwashed Lucinda. 

  • http://www.facebook.com/rjgrotte Rodney Grotte

    I missed the show.  Is there a way for me to download it.

  • http://www.facebook.com/rjgrotte Rodney Grotte

    I missed the show.  Is there a way for me to download it.

  • Telling-the-truth

    My name is Sarah and I was on Mr. Levine’s program tonight (Thurs. Jan 19,2012) speaking about what happened and DID NOT happen at Hephzibah House in Indiana. After I got off the air with Mr. Levine he (on the air) accused me of being a liar. He said  “…it’s interesting- when Sarah called in she told my producer she was a survivor…”
    The fact is that I did not tell his producer that- his producer never asked me anything of the sort. His producer asked my name, where I was from, and what I was calling about. I told him my name, state and that I was calling about Hephzibah House in Indiana. He never asked if I was a survivor and I never said I was.

  • GreenChimneysSurvivor
  • GreenChimneysSurvivor

    This interview is all about abuse at Green Chimneys.

    http://www.latalkradio.com/Players/Bipolar-030611.shtml

    And in this one, 3 mos later another person mentions Green Chimneys in their interview.

    http://www.latalkradio.com/Players/Bipolar-061211.shtml

    Be sure to check this out as well:

    http://dubiouschimneys.info/

  • http://www.radioinsidescoop.com Mark Levine

    I disagree.  No one other than a parent has a legal right to spank a child. That’s child abuse in my view.  (And I wish parents would stop as well but they legally can.)

  • Jamiebeth1972

    Chris Carlton…I read your story and want you to know that I truly understand you. You are not alone! Much love

  • Jamiebeth1972

    These stories sound so much like my story. I truly hope that one day all these places are closed forever.  I was in straight inc. in Virginia. They are closed now but the damage to the teens done years ago is still there today as we are all adults now. Thank you Mark for doing what you do.

  • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=100002371386357 Reddit TroubledTeens

    Trailer for ‘Kidnapped for Jesus’ documentary about Escuela Caribe discussed on the show: http://vimeo.com/35042262

  • GreenChimneysSurvivor

    Mark, thank you so much.  I’m glad more people are coming forward about Green Chimneys in Brewster, NY.  It’s a horrible place and the abusers have been protected far too long.

  • Lucinda Pennington

    If you want to hear about the abuse I experienced read “They Meant it for Evil” I must say writing sentences for disobedience or getting a spanking for doing wrong is not abuse. 15-20 years ago spanking was used as discipline our society today says that simple “NO” said to a child is abuse.

  • Ghfcpennington

    Hephzibah House in INDIANA did NOT abuse anyone! I was there for three years! I never witnessed any abuse!

  • Chris Carlton
  • Chris Carlton
  • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=100002371386357 Reddit TroubledTeens

    Links to support the bills that will regulate these facilities:
    https://www.popvox.com/bills/us/112/hr3126
    and
    https://www.popvox.com/bills/us/112/s1667

  • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=100002371386357 Reddit TroubledTeens

    Fantastic show so far! The 14 year old girl, Mary, was very brave for coming forward. So was the guest who went to Green Chimneys. Both of their stories were scary, my heart goes out to them for having to go through that.

  • http://www.radioinsidescoop.com Mark Levine

    Rick Santorum served on board of facility with horrific child abuse http://huff.to/xQ94j8

  • http://www.radioinsidescoop.com Mark Levine

    The show is tonight.  It was postponed from an earlier date.  You haven’t missed anything. I start at 6 minutes after the hour, after the news.

  • kittybrat

    Mark Levine is doing a superb job of bringing the issue to light, and daring to talk about the problem. 
    Thank you so much. 

  • http://www.facebook.com/roch.longueepee Roch Longueépée

    I hope kids in these programs (recent graduates for a lack of better words) will call in to discuss their experiences with Mark. Good luck mark and thanks for all your support! This subject is of national importance.

    Founder, Restoring Dignity

     http://restoringdignity.org

  • rebellb

    However, I read another place on the web site that it may be scheduled for Jan. 19. I don’t know if that’s true, because I saw something that said Jan. 10 for the “Torture in America” show on the Mark Levine show.

  • rebellb

    I tried to play the show “Torture in America:Kids Abused in ‘Treatment Centers’ Speak Out”, but for some reason, when I tried to click on the title, all I got was some bracket and I wasn’t able to click on any link. I don’t know whether it is something in my computer that is doing it(perhaps some kind of censorship spyware), or if it’s some other kind of issue.

  • guest

    I am immensely thankful that someone in the media has heard our cries for the children to come.  Thank you Mark.
    Jill Ryan
    jilliestake.blogspot.com

  • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=100002371386357 Reddit TroubledTeens

    I’m looking forward to this show, Mark has done a superb job of covering this issue with sensitivity & appropriate outrage. If anyone has never heard of this, here’s a little synopsis of how over 10,000 kids are being tortured right now: http://www.reddit.com/r/troubledteens/comments/l7r94/welcome_rfirstworldproblems_if_you_are_like_most/